Transcript
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Kwame
Hello, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of Beyond Influence. I am here with my co-host Scott, and we are joined by a very special guest. Today. We have a bestselling author and bestselling author CEO. Like, you know, such a big impact. I have to clear my throat before I can finish it, but, bestselling author, a CEO and a communications expert we have today with us, Maha Abouelenein, welcome to the show.
How are you having me?
Maha
I'm so excited to be here. And I love purple.
Kwame
Yes.
Maha
The Minnesota Vikings vibe going.
Kwame
You know, it's kind of, it's serendipitous because, we did just so the Seahawks did just pick up Sam Darnold. Yeah from the yes from the Vikings. So it's full circle. But I'm also on my Huskies game because I just started a cool influencer little connection partnership with the Huskies. So we're going to be going to a few of their games this year, so that we can connect with a couple of their really awesome players.
Jonah, who's, you know, we're hoping is going to go, you know, top ten in the NFL draft. So we'll see how it goes.
Maha
Very cool.
Kwame
Yeah.
Maha
It was very fun. So I like following all the news, waiting to find out if Aaron Rodgers is going to come to Minnesota or if he's going to go to the Steelers or what's going to happen. So we'll see.
Scott
It is wild, wild times in football. And speaking of football, we recently actually spent some time together at the Super Bowl. And that was kind of how we reconnected. And it was actually funny because Cammy and I were standing and he goes, that's my. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And he's like, I've talked to her, I've talked to her.
And it was just the funniest interaction. And it led to an awesome connection. You know, we got to spend some time together there, but really excited that you were able to take the time and come spend it with us. You're such an amazing perspective. So much experience and just really excited to dive into the convo.
Maha
Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, it was fun. I always like to go to the Super Bowl and like spending time with people that you didn't expect you were going to run into and hang out with and I could have jammed all night with you guys, so we'll run it back next year.
Kwame
Yeah. Isn't it crazy? There's I mean, the just the crowd at the Super Bowl, like, is so wild. You will see Amy and every single person there, it's like it's just it's I don't know it's really awesome. I mean going to these events and then just hanging out with people that you've probably seen on TV or online for years, you know, this is them.
Yeah. We saw, this is such a minor little one, but also kind of a big one. Saw big just this at the,
Maha
That's right.
Kwame
Yeah. The Gary V party, which is so funny. Right. Just somebody that I would have never in my life been like, yeah, I want to run into this person or I really follow this person, but once you see them, you're like, I know who this person is.
Maha
Yeah. So here's the thing about going to events like the Super Bowl. And I talk about this a lot, like it's not just a bunch of parties where you're just going to like, hang out, like you could actually do business, like meet people, talk to them face to face during a relaxed environment. They're in a different setting. And I get so much business out of going to the Super Bowl because everyone's there in a condensed time.
So, you know, potential clients, media, you know, business opportunities, use these events to really leverage them to create new introductions or relationships. And I'm still doing follow up for my list. Like I went to the Super Bowl and I made a list of everyone I met on the plane on the way home. Like, okay, this one I want to do a podcast.
This one I want to try to talk to about training. This is what I want you to do. If you intentionally go to these events with your eyes wide open to try to leverage. And that's what I was asking you, how is South by Southwest? Like, should I go next year? Like, it's not just to go to parties, it's to go to open relationships and meet new people.
Kwame
Yeah. I mean, speaking of South by Southwest, to wrap kind of that part up like South by Southwest was really awesome. I mean, you had so many opportunities, like learning opportunities. You had so many great speakers, so many great panels. But then you also just had these really fun activations. It was just a great combination of technology, music, movies, all of these things.
Right. You could go see a talk, from someone speaking about, I didn't know the financial aspects of life and TV and television or whatever it is. And then you walk down the street and you see a big golden goblet. There's a bunch of love is blind people. And they're taking pictures, pictures with you. And then you go down the street.
It's a Rivian activation. And they're showing you how well the car powers through, you know, hills and so on and so forth. So I love the way everything's kind of married in this awesome setting itself. I really enjoyed it.
Maha
Brands come into life in different experiences. It makes a difference when you can get up and close personal with the brand you. It changes your mind like now Rivian. Like, I know I'm thinking about that. Like it's a different mentality of how you can be close to a brand face to face.
Scott
It's funny. I know you know, a big focus of your work is around kind of relationships and communication and, and managing through your career. It's funny because I, I came from this very like digital marketing engine where, you know, you're thinking about, okay, lead gen and I'm gonna spend this much, it's going to convert to these leads.
And then you kind of sit back and you're like, these are all just people who are trying to discover ways to run their business better. And then you kind of do this moment of self-reflection. You're like, it is a great experience. Me seeing, you know, some random thing above all my Google search results. That's like a sideswipe at your competitor and then like some crappy eight click experience through a web page.
I would much rather you meet me at an event, have a conversation, have some interesting things, add value and teach me something, and then kind of earn that relationship. And from there, yeah, I just that's so much more of an enjoyable way. And it's funny because we went through, you know, building on our go to market and so much more, we're just let's develop relationships with really great people.
Let's add value with no immediate ask. And then what we found is, like, people are so happy to engage in those kinds of conversations.
Maha
And that's a great onramp to build. A relationship with someone is not to have a transaction. Right? Like how do you build a relationship based on like, how can I help? What can I do to bring value to you? It's a huge difference maker.
Scott
Yeah. So by the way, for all people out there, Sam, for your social life, by the way, if you're just going without expectations, build relationships, add value, get to know people and actually, what is this like, how to win friends and to actually be interested in what someone is about and what they're trying to accomplish in life.
Maha
So, you know, meet my people. Yeah. I teach people a lot. This is like networking for a lot of people is daunting, right? So like, what is a low lifting you can do to network with many people? You can easily do it through social media, go comment on people's posts, share their work, support them, show up for them. Like I can spend 15 minutes every single day just seeing what my colleagues and friends and network are up to, and then boosting their work or commenting or showing them love.
It's a low life thing to do. Everyone can do it, and I feel like it's one of the best ways you can kind of stay up to speed with what people are doing that you care about, and even if you're going to go to a South by Southwest, you should post, I'm going to be out there. Who's out there?
Because you don't know that maybe someone in a new network is going to be there and you didn't know if you could potentially meet them. And I really think that matters are like meeting somebody face to face. That's why, like, if I really want to meet somebody, I will send them a DM and I make it really quick saying, can I have five minutes of your time?
Because who's going to say no to five minutes of your time? Like, you're like, I have five minutes to talk to somebody and try to get it into a DM, into an email, into a meeting, so you can meet them in real life, because then you can really tell people who you are, what you care about, why did you want to meet them, and so on.
Scott
I love that.
Kwame
Yeah. I mean, thinking about the way that networking in itself has transcended throughout the ages, right. You know, I think we all thought it was a very in-person thing alone. And then Covid happened and then we were bound to, you know, being behind our computers and then zoom, stack froze because everybody had to meet online and look at each other through, through a screen.
And then now it's become this awesome combination of both things. Right. How do we start our relationships? Maybe, you know, just getting a bit of a connection, connecting on LinkedIn, shooting a quick note. Hey, great to connect with you. And then hopefully just like transitioning to you're going to this event, I'm going to be there as well.
Yeah. Let's connect there. But like the real the best ways to really form deep connections is to have that full circle relationship because, you know, like, going to events with Scott when we were at the Super Bowl, we got to go to an in-person event, and it just felt like the people we were talking to there, like it just felt like such a smooth, easy conversation.
And that led to a basketball game for me. I ended up playing pickup basketball with them. And then that transitions man to now, like I have, you know, their cell phone numbers, right? And that's really what I think networking and hoping to connect and create business and longevity with people is it's not just like I'm interested in what you have, you should be interested in what I have.
It's like, let's get to know each other and see how that benefits us.
Maha
Yeah. I mean, we live in a world where we want instant gratification. We want to like, tap to pay and get out of the, you know, store. We want to download a whole season of Love Is Blind at the same time, like we don't want to wait. And even in relationships, a lot of people are like, I need favors, I need to use my network.
And I always say, like, your network is not there to serve you. You need to serve your network. And the concept of networking is really something that a lot of people like. It's a new skill you need to know how to do, like even on zoom, like if you work in a company, how are you making sure you're building relationships with people that are on the screen with you?
Because a lot of people, we always think about networking with people outside the company where we work. But like, what about the people within your firm or your company that you work that might help your career, or give you good advice, or be a mentor, or open up a new opportunity for you to switch jobs within the company, like try to think about relationship tips differently.
Whether you're going to an event or on zoom. Try to connect with the person and get time with them so you can build more of a rapport and start with a low level task in terms of their time, and then grow from there.
Scott
It's funny, I do this thing and I don't know if it's a good idea or a bad idea, but it's just something that I've found is I have this idea of what I call it like vocal eye contact and zoom, which is you can't really see eye contact. But I try to like, vocally shout out every person in like a random example.
Like it was funny. We were making an announcement and I like to call on comments like, hey, call me, tell us a joke, or like, oh man, look at mom's background. Like her bookshelf is like, so organized, you know? And I think it's like these little call outs may make people keep them engaged. But by the way, this is a side rant.
Did you all do the virtual wine tastings during Covid where you, like, ship everyone wine and then it's like.
Maha
This, I've done stuff like that before, not with wine, but like where you give them a kit and then they do something with.
Scott
It. I'm so glad to be past those. That's like trying to do a socialization of wine tasting, like remotely in your basement. Like I just like, oh my gosh.
Maha
We were trying to be creative and innovative. We didn't have a choice. We have.
Scott
To know where we are.
Maha
At, connect.
Scott
Us. We're amazing. And at the time, it felt like a break. But I am just like saying, so like standing in a room, getting to actually have human interaction is just its song.
Maha
Nothing beats it, nothing beats it. But events are really effective for that. Like I find so many big things like it's like a big moment. I never miss the Super Bowl just because the number of people that I can meet in those three days Friday, Saturday, Sunday is insane.
Scott
Honors that. So I feel like we dove in like.
Maha
Oh, okay.
Scott
We haven't really given a lot of context, so maybe for those, you know who might not be familiar with you, you're talking a little bit about your work and, and what you're spending your time on. And, obviously you've created a huge following. You had a lot of success. And in your career and just help, you know, our audience unpack that.
Maha
Yeah. But I need to work with you guys. I've been diving into what you guys do. So I am a communications executive. I'm born and raised in Minnesota. I'm 100% Egyptian. And I help people tell their stories. I help them think about reputation, about their personal brand, about how to connect with audiences. I used to run communications and public policy at Google out of Dubai.
I launched Netflix in the Middle East. I worked with the ruler of Dubai for many years, and I built Weber Shandwick, which is a global PR firm. I built all of their offices in the Middle East. I used to live half my life in Minnesota and the other half of my life in Egypt, in Dubai. And then I came back during the pandemic, and I've been back here for five years.
I have my own firm. We work with Garyvee, I, Deepak Chopra, how we bury, chase like banks and work with companies, but we work with a lot of people helping them figure out how to tell their stories and build their brands. Heidi D'Amelio, that's the call. The client called me. I'm like, I need to push this back an hour.
So, you know, just really helping people tell their stories. And one of the things like, I started my career doing a lot of communications for companies like Coca-Cola, McDonald's, the Visa's of the world and then started working a lot with governments because governments, like people, have to be transparent, tell stories, build trust, create credibility. And then I started working with brands like Personal Brands, people and executive profiling.
And how do you build thought leadership? Because people follow people. They don't follow companies. And how do you build trust? Just because you have a lot of followers doesn't mean you have a lot of influence or impact. And it doesn't equal, you know, credibility. Like someone can have a lot of followers, but they have no credibility in what they do.
And so how can you do that? Thought leadership. And I firmly believe that everybody in the world has something to offer to teach people how to. So how do I do yoga? How to build bikes, how to paint, how to tell stories, how to go viral on social media like everybody has something to offer. And we live kind of in a world that I kind of like to call the trust economy, where people really want to build trust and authenticity with people that they interact with, and there's plenty of people to choose from to do business with.
And you don't want to do business with people. You don't feel authentic or transparent or trustworthy. And so that's kind of what I help people do, is make sure they hone in on like, what do you really care about? How do you scale that? How do you communicate that? And how do you get people to not just believe you, but to trust you?
Because that's the currency that matters, and your reputation is the only thing you actually need to be worried about. Every night is like, how do you build a good reputation? How do you build a brand that people love and your name is all you own? And I really believe that when people think about personal brand and replace it with the word reputation, people go, oh my gosh, like, yeah, what am I doing to build my rotation?
Because if you have a good reputation and you can build good relationships, and if you have good relationships, you can get better opportunities. And if you get better opportunities, you can make more money. If you make more money, you can have more freedom. So there's all these things that come along with building a good reputation that affords you opportunities.
And that's what I do in a nutshell. Sorry, I went very long.
Kwame
No, I mean, I think he said something that really, really stuck with me, like, I didn't think about the impact of trust as an overall, as much as you just made me think about it, because everything is based on trust when it comes to politics, even. It's like, yeah, what can people trust me? And in certain situations, maybe my message is meant to make people distrust whoever I'm running against, right?
Because ultimately, everything that comes with moving forward and having impact and having the ability to work with someone or having the ability to, you know, lead someone has to do with trust. And so that is a very, very great point. I'll definitely work that into the things I think about.
Maha
People trust you, they'll do business with you. And then they'll recommend you to other people. Like they're like, no, these guys are good. They did me a solid or they delivered or they had results like that's what you're at. At the end of the day, you will be able to not just survive, but thrive because you'll be able to build those relationships into a currency that's very, very valuable.
Scott
It's funny, a lot of people ask me, hey, stepping in a CEO role, like, what is the big takeaway? What's the biggest thing? What's the hardest thing? And I think what's really interesting is like a lot of people would be like, oh, it's juggling the different multiple aspects of the business or private decision making and decisions or any of that.
I think actually the biggest thing is I've realized how important the story, the content, the ability to tell your message and have it be heard have people care and that goes internally and externally. If your employees don't have a very clear understanding of where you're headed, what you stand for, who the leadership team is and why it resonates, and then externally, you know, I'm so much more aware of how I discover products and how I discover information and how it then leads to decisions.
And, you know, I am coming back to that whole marketing point, like I was very transactional in my thinking about sales. I was like, okay, we just buy leads, we work the leads, we have conversion rate, we drive sales, we drive up ASP, and then we take a step back. It's like, this isn't how I discover things. This isn't the journey.
This isn't why I love companies. And that's been one of the biggest challenges. And there's this really interesting thing. You talked a lot about giving back and like being that value add in interactions. Yeah I think my biggest challenge. I am curious about your feedback on every post I make. I just don't want to be a lame, boring B2B corporate CEO just putting crap on the internet.
And I'm like, what do I have to say? Is that actually useful to another human being that will help them in some way? And that type of content creation is far, far harder than just the.
Maha
It's a lived experience. Like if you just focus on your lived experience, that's valuable because that is authentic to who you are and what you went through as a company. The thing you just brought up about the leadership thing about what's the hardest part about leadership and trust? So we at my company, we just got done doing like, you know, IDPs and development plans and in the strategic vision for the company of where we're going to go over the next couple of years.
And everyone needs to know where they fit in that, like you need to build that level of trust that like I trust you to share with you where we're going. Where do you fit into this whole picture? And building trust within an organization is far more important than building an outside, because your team are your ambassadors and the ones that you want to be on this rocket ship with you to see if they believe in this mission of what you're trying to achieve, because you can't do it alone.
And so they need to trust your vision. They need to trust that they feel safe with you if they're upset about something or they don't know, you know, can I approach her and ask her about something or talk to her about a problem? They're like, yeah, we have to have that. We spent a lot of time working on trust, making sure that we trust each other to come to each other when there's a problem with the client or internally, because that's what builds the organization foundation.
That's unshakable.
Scott
I'm curious, how do you approach that? Like if you're trying to coach or mentor someone, to get started? And how do I foster trust? How do I build that relationship? Where would you encourage people to kind of start on that? It's just.
Maha
This, yeah, we just did this this week. But one of the things is like we, I started with, like, me being vulnerable, like me kind of just sharing, you know, taking you do you have to break down, you know, walls and pedestals and just like, listen, this is how I feel. And just coming from a place of vulnerability builds trust.
Because if you just think like you're above everything and you don't know anything, or you're looking down on people, that doesn't work. Like creating that safety net is really important. Sharing that vulnerability that's what builds trust. And I think connecting with others by sharing your truth is a good place to start.
Scott
I love that.
Kwame
Yeah. And I mean, I think dating back to or thinking about how you got into all this, it seems like you've had, you know, quite the generational run along the path that you've been on, being in communications. What was that initial, you know, lightning bolt moment or, you know, light bulb, you know, whichever way you put it. But ultimately, what's that initial trigger that made you think, this is what I want to do?
Maha
Yeah. Like I always liked when I was in college, I worked as an intern in the newsroom, and that's kind of when I got the bug of, like, you were in the newsroom. There's something that comes in over the wire. We have to figure out how to package it before we tell it to the world. On broadcast, I was like an intern for a CBS affiliate, and that, like, excited me to know and, like, how do you take a bunch of information, distill it, soften it, because it might be some bad news or good news.
And how do you share that with the world? So that's when I kind of got it when I was in college. But I wanted to be a journalist. I thought I was going to be like a TV anchor and stand up live doing stand ups and then, you know, telling stories to the world. And I end up doing the opposite of where I help clients figure out how to tell their stories to the news and in person.
And it changed like it used to be. The news was like, you know, the evening news or the newspaper was the news. And like then it became the internet, then it became social media, then it became your phone. It's like rapid response and everything is now and culture has changed. We don't watch the news anymore. We listen to podcasts.
We don't, you know, we don't turn on the television. We like, you know, look at YouTube, like we look at TikTok, like my source of where I get information from is changed. And so good stories resonate with people when you meet them where they're at, like, you know, how do you deliver a story on TikTok and Instagram or a blog post or LinkedIn where normally you may have used a media outlet.
Now you can do it directly to the consumer. So you have to be good at storytelling. All of a sudden, everyone has to be good at, you know, communications is not a nice to have to be good at comms. It used to be that my work was only dealing with the CEO and the head of PR. Now you're dealing with everybody because everybody that works at a company gets asked like, hey, what do you do?
What's your job? What's your role? Everybody has social media accounts. Everybody has an audience. So it's completely turned it upside down. And I think my moment was when I worked in the newsroom as an intern. And then technology is just accelerating and changing consumer behavior. So you have to adapt how your story tells based on what people are consuming in the elections this year. This is a big example like a podcast.
We're really a big deal where before, you know, when Obama was running, it was all about Twitter and social media. So like every generation is having a different way of learning about social issues, topics, politics, government. And I feel like the next election will be a much different iteration of that as well, because it is going to be changing how we look at information and we digest it.
So fasten your seatbelt.
Scott
Yeah. I was like, we're going to get JD Vance doing TikTok dances or something. Yeah. So it's a wild new paradigm.
Maha
They are young.
Scott
I'm curious, you know, it's interesting because the kind of gen where I came up in my generation, it was an interesting inflection point in society where I feel like business culture went from being a suit wearing tie every day. Got to be the finance bro kind of perfect image of perfection, almost politicians ask. And there just seems to be this disillusionment with that type of business culture.
And it's definitely shifting. And it's funny, there's a saying of vulnerability, like me as a CEO wearing a sweatshirt and a hat and being open about my thoughts and feelings and not necessarily needing to have a perfectly ironed everything and come across a certain way. It's very weird, interesting, not just personal vulnerability. It's allowing yourself to express yourself the way that you feel comfortable, but not in an unprofessional way.
I'm curious how you you help people wrestle with, with balancing vulnerability, with maybe a feeling of people won't take them seriously, or people won't feel that they're competent or they might not be able to see through, you know, them, showing them their true self to see the thoughts, ideas, the capabilities that they have, you know, and able to deliver.
Maha
I mean, it's pretty mean, pretty common. We judge a book by its cover, right? What do you think about how you dressed? It has a lot to say about your story and your message, and I'll give you a good example. So I do a lot of business, like I said, in Dubai, and I work with Gary Vee and Gary's always like t-shirts, sneakers, you know, a hat.
And I'm like, okay, we're going to go meet the minister. Like we can't walk in wearing, you know, you know, sneakers and a hat and all this kind of stuff. But I was like, you know what? That's his brand and that's authentic to who he is. And everyone needs to feel comfortable. So I had to, like, unlearn some of my own kind of biases towards, like, this is what we're supposed to do and this is how things are supposed to look.
And then Gary rocks up. I mean, they just care to meet him. They don't care about what he's wearing. And I learned that in a second, you know, like, you have to put away what you think you should be doing and just focus on what is authentically like. I also want him to be comfortable in these meetings.
Right? I want him to be himself. And I really believe that times have changed. I actually have a chapter in my book about unlearning and relearning because like, even when we would hire a candidate like, I'm a company, you're always looking at what their degree was, where they went to school? Nobody cares about that. Like what is your experience?
Are you a good human? Are you empathetic? Are you kind? Are you a team player? Can you collaborate? You fit with my culture. Like that's the new barometer of understanding that you have to evolve in the way that you see things, so you can be open to opportunities that you probably may have closed yourself off in the past, because that's the way it should have been.
And now all those books are just torn up and thrown away.
Kwame
Yeah I mean I do. I appreciate the transition of what it has become. You know, it used to be that if you kind of just wore sweats and you know, went into a Mercedes dealership, you were either just, you know, you were just brushed aside or, you know, the salesman got lucky and you were a professional athlete or something.
But if you went into a place that looked like it had high class fancy decor, you had to be in high class, fancy decor yourself. And I feel like it's definitely been a barrier breaking thing. And, you know, looking at the newer generation, looking at Gen Z and the fact that a lot of them have made, you know, many fortunes off of, you know, the internet and are now just coming out as regular people.
And really, really kind of changing that process of what we thought was a successful, wealthy business person because there's a lot that goes into it. We spoke to a friend of mine, Marcel, who, you know, said that he wasn't the best in school, right? But he transitioned out, and he plays video games for a living.
And, you know, he was one person, and now he has, you know, a team of like, 5 or 6, right? That kind of handle, all of his work. So he is a very accomplished businessman, you know what I'm saying?
Maha
Maneuver. Like he had to learn how to, like, be a creator. And then he built such a strong business that now he needs a team, and he has to learn how to, like, you know, have a different hat on. I think that's incredible. I mean, the creator economy obviously is really booming and people are learning the value of they are the IP, you are the IP and that you are the brand.
And I found that's very Natalie empowering. Like literally financially, socially you can become, you know, your own superpower. But I feel like it's something that gives people an incredible amount of opportunity to change their own circumstances without having to wait for others to bring them opportunities.
Scott
So I, I see the book behind you. We all know you're a bestselling author. Tell us a little bit more about rules of self-reliance and kind of the journey of, hey, I, I'm thinking about writing this book. I'm thinking about putting this out there and kind of, you know, what inspired you to kind of launch on that journey and how that's been.
Maha
Thank you so much for that. So first of all, the book is not about when people see the word self in self reliance. You're like, oh, she's teaching us how to be independent. We don't need anybody. It's actually the opposite. If you read the book, it's it's inspiring book and it's educational. But I really want to teach people what skills that they can have within themselves, that they can rely on themselves for before reaching out to do stuff.
So one of the rules of the book is to teach you how to network. Like, I want everyone to know how to build a proper relationship, and I want to rely on myself to build a network. I can't say, hey, Kwami, you know those friends you develop through business, you know, can I have those relationships? Because I need them for my company?
No. I need to know how to do that skill myself. Another rule of self-reliance is how do you rely on yourself to create value for other people? Like, how can you be a difference maker for somebody else? Can you anticipate their needs or solve their problems? And if you are a value creator for others, then people want to keep you in their world, in their lives and their orbit in your company.
And so I teach skills like that in the book, I teach a whole. The biggest chapter in the book is how to build your personal brand, because I feel like your reputation is a currency, and I want you to know what it's worth and what its value is. The reason I wanted to write a book is I, you know, for a long time, I've always had this.
You know, first of all, you can see my whole office. You can't see it. But, like, I have a room here full of books. Like, I love books. And so I always wanted to write one, but I didn't know what I wanted to write about. It is about communications and PR. Is it about my upbringing of, you know, it's Egyptian brown girl growing up in Minnesota and then moving overseas in this big, glamorous life in Dubai and then coming back.
And so I didn't write about what I did. I talk about how I did it, how I got this successful career, how I got this lived experience? I knew how to create value for people. I knew how to build my brand. I knew how to build relationships. One of the rules of the book is called Don't Be a Waiter because so much of life I discovered I was waiting.
I was waiting for people to give me opportunities that we're going to just fall into my lap and change my life. That's not how the world works. You can't wait for opportunities to come to you. You really need to create them yourself. And if you don't have the skills or experience, how do you go about getting them? And often we wait because we don't want people to judge us or we fear failure.
And so those are some of the rules of the book. But I just, I'm really proud of it is actually six months out now. It's been out for about six months. And the stories I get from people who have read it, who have really changed a lot of things in their lives, that was so rewarding for me, and I never thought I would be an author, but now I'm like, I'm ready to write the next one.
Kwame
I love that, so I know it's always hard to pick a segment of something where you've written and poured your heart out. But if you were to pick one rule, the self-reliance that you thought was most important in defining your career trajectory and success, which one would you go with?
Maha
It's rule number four. Rule number four, written before. It's about investing in yourself. Right. And so a lot of times in my life, I had to like, get asked to do things that I never did before. And I'm like, oh, I don't do that. I'm not a speechwriter. It's not what I do. Or, I'm going to work on, IPO.
I've never done that before. It's not what I do. But if you can have the mentality in the mind shift of, like, you can invest in yourself because the internet is for free podcasts or for free, YouTube is for free. You can learn anything. And if you just take time to think about it, you can invest in yourself and not wait for your employer to like, send you to training or give you this opportunity.
That's the game changer for my career. I learned how to keep investing in myself, keep sharpening my saw, keep understanding how to be relevant to culture, keep understanding what's happening in sports, what's happening in music, what's happening, entertainment. How does that tie the business? How does that tie to storytelling? What's happening on platforms? Investing in yourself is the number one thing.
If you do, if you want to be more self-reliant today than you were yesterday, you need to be curious and you need to invest in yourself. And that's been the thing that will forever be my thing. Like that's my DNA. Like, I'm always interested in ideas and focused on the future because I want to be growing and learning and I want to always know what I can invest in myself?
Like, I was looking up your company. I'm like, oh, what can I learn from you guys? What are the things that I can invest in myself to learn so I can be better at influencer marketing or outreach? Like that's a critical way of the way the world works. And I'd like to embrace it and learn about it.
And I want to spend some time investing in it.
Scott
I love that. I think it's so powerful. And I think about, like, a lot of decision points in my life. And it's like you, you are presented this opportunity to take a position, and it's terrifying. And you're like, I'm not qualified for that job. And you step back and you go, what do I stand to gain?
What do I stand to lose? And I think part of this is having trust with the leadership who's presenting this opportunity of saying, I'm going to step in, I'm going to help you out in a time of need. I'm going to learn an incredible amount. I'll most likely move the organization forward, and it might not be my forever job, but if I walk away with it, you know, from this I'll have a much richer understanding of this entire area.
For instance, the zoom info, they were like, hey, will you be CMO? I'm not a marketer, I like, I'm an ops guy. I now have so much better a hold on marketing because of the six months I spent filling that gap while they were looking for a CMO.
Maha
You got your hands dirty.
Scott
Yeah, and it was terrifying. And I was like, I felt like a fraud every single day. But I was like, we went through and grew leads. We worked on the brand. We got content like and and I, I had such an appreciation for the discipline and what great marketing looks like. And then like, I think, you know, maybe one thing out of this is that investing in yourself, I walked away so much more confident in my ability to take on the next challenge as a consequence of that.
And so each time you're asked to take a bigger and bigger leap, you're like, I can jump that far.
Maha
I yeah, you get more confident.
Scott
I've never seen it.
Maha
100%. I also feel like sometimes we don't know if we're capable of doing it because we've never been asked before. But then once we do it, we're like, hey, I can do that. Like, that's really not just reassuring, but it gives you that confidence to take the next step. And then when you face another fear, you're like, okay, it wasn't that bad.
I think I can get through the next one.
Scott
What was one of those moments for you where you were like, I don't know if I can take this opportunity. I don't know if I'm ready.
Maha
If it happens, it happens to me all the time. Like, it's just I always, like, put myself in these positions and then I'm like, I'm going to. I guess I'm doing this now. Like, I never ran an IPO before. I never, I mean, got asked to write speeches for the prime minister of Egypt. I never did government work.
I never did that kind of thing before. But I find, like, if you're the biggest person who is, you know, feeding your negative thoughts into your doubt, your self-doubt is you, like, you're the problems are always bigger in your head. You're probably the one that's in the way of your success. And so you really need to get out of your own way so that you can kind of go through those fears and those challenges, and then find out that, like, you can actually conquer them.
So I give many examples in the book, but I feel like the hardest thing to do is to take the first step. And then once you do, you're like, okay, I think I can get another step.
Kwame
Yeah. I mean, I think about that in reference to sports for me, right? You have to reference it to something that you're used to or understand. And I think like whenever I go play with a team that plays at a higher level than me, I get significantly better. And when I go back to a level that I'm used to, it just feels so much easier.
I mean, for me, when I started playing soccer, I started playing in 11th grade, so I didn't have a lot of technical ability. So my first year I was really, really bad. I was just really fast. So I made the team. And then I, that whole summer, I just trained over and over and over. Yeah. The top three years came back, scoring five goals in the first game.
That's when I really like things that have changed for me. You know what I was like, okay, put in that effort to this play at a higher level. I was playing with guys who were just significantly better than me. I can get good at this. And so when I went to college, I didn't have the best overall college experience, but I wanted to try out at a professional soccer team, which I did not think I would make.
But I got lucky and made that team and through that I sort of played with them every day. And even though I was the worst player when I first got there, by the time that I left MIT and yeah, I was about mid, you know, right in the middle. And then the next team that I stepped up to, I, you know, I went over to Europe and started playing in another team and I got in as the worst and then went a little bit higher.
So yeah. So it's all about challenging yourself to a point where you have to force yourself to play at a higher level, to think at a higher level, to work at a higher level. And whenever you can do that, you will start to adjust. And then the next thing you know, if you go back to the level you were used to, you'll think, wow.
Maha
Yeah, exactly. This is easy. You I always had to think of opportunities and in terms of like, what is it giving me a chance to learn or chance to earn? And sometimes we might take a job and you're like, oh my God, I can make a lot of money. But I'm like, that might be at that stage in your life where you need to be thinking about earning, but there's some times in my life where I tell the story in the book about what I got offered to be.
I was living in Minnesota. I was 27, worked at General Mills, did sports marketing work for all the coolest brands like having a master's degree on top of my world move to Egypt, and I got asked to be the secretary for a billionaire. Like after I was like, working in this great marketing job, loving life. And I'm like, I'm overqualified.
This is like not the right job for me. Like, I was full of myself. Like, I'm like, this is not the right role for me. I can't take this job. But then I'm like, my dad gave me the advice and I took his advice, even though I really hated it at the time that, like, I just moved to Egypt.
I didn't know anybody. I didn't speak the language. You're going to work for a billionaire. You're going to be very close to the sun. You're going to learn a lot about how his business runs. You're going to learn about every single person who wants to meet him, and has to go through you. You are going to be building a lot of relationships like it's like the perfect job for you and I did.
I put my head down. I started to network with everyone. I learned how to create value for him. I studied every piece of paper coming in and out of the office, but I had to take that first step of like, okay, this isn't going to be what I want to be doing, but there's going to be a long term game in it, and I'm going to get a chance to learn, and then I'll worry about earning money once I have skills and expertise and knowhow and knowledge, and I feel like it's just taking that inflection point for you to think about opportunities that come to you is like, if it gives you a chance to learn, then it's a hell yeah, I want to do it and then get the earning at a later stage.
Scott
It's such good feedback. It's funny you mentioned your dad's feedback. I used to get so mad when managers would be like, hey, why don't you go try this job over here? It'll, like, teach you all these skills. And I'm like, but that's a lateral. And or you're like, you know, and it's just this, this doesn't move me up the corporate chain.
And I think like there's this maturing that a lot of people do. Some don't. But I, you know, I think everyone is capable of in time, which is, you know, if you're truly seeking to build the most well-rounded version of yourself, the most kind of complete person, you know, in a corporate context, in the personal context, it's going to require you to do some things that are not sexy.
They're not the next big move. They might not be the next big dollar thing. And it's so funny because I see people interviewing people who maybe are going from like a director down to a manager or an SVP back to a senior director. And you're like, why would you want to take that job? And I, I love the answer of, like, I'm investing in my long term growth.
I know that this is something that's going to lead to big things for me and just that mindset, growth mindset, and also the ability to make a sacrifice willingly for your own growth. I think that quality in individuals, you know, coming to work for us or that I see in my life, it's super commendable and it's such a hard decision to make that kind of investment in yourself, coming back to your, you know, your fourth roll around.
Sometimes you have to do things that are a little counterintuitive in order to take a step forward. So yeah, really, really interesting.
Kwame
Yeah. And it looks like I mean, you've been investing a lot in your social life, you know, you, you know, go the extra mile to make sure that your content looks good. It looks representative of what you're trying to do within your mission. And, you know, as this is a, you know, very influencer and creator focused, conversation that we'd like to have, I'd love to know what inspired you to think in that direction.
Right. And ultimately right. Like, where do you see this content, you know, creating opportunity for you?
Maha
Yeah. First of all, thanks for that. If you know, one of the things I want to do with my content, I think anybody who's listening to this podcast should think about is like, what's in it for the audience? Like, can I share something that's going to give them something valuable? And they always talk about creating value for your audience, think about your audience, and don't think about things like, you know, I got out of my head for a long time.
I was like, oh, I'm not going to post that video on, like how I look for my hair or I'm too fat or whatever. And I'm like, nobody's looking for that. Nobody cares about that. Like, that's a me thing, not a they thing. And so I always think about how I can tell stories that people can connect with, how can I give them valuable content?
And let's say a video is performing really well, I might break that down into a carousel and share it in a written format, like with slides, just because I know the message is resonating. And so I think about staying true to the topics that I'm very good at, like teaching people about personal brand communication, storytelling, networking, you know, how to get media or free publicity coverage.
Like I stick in my lane and then I show a lot about my life, like when I go to Dubai or behind the scenes at the Super Bowl or my family, or on the tennis court. Like, I want people to see the whole me, because that's also authenticity. I think I'm going to get ready to do a post which will be out by the time the show comes out about Meghan Markle's show, and like there's been a lot of buzz about it and good or bad doesn't matter.
But it's like, what did that teach us? As I bought authenticity and reliability and consistency and people are watching. So how do you take that attention and turn it into a moment to really tell people who you are and what you care about? So I try to think about, you know, sticking to the key things, my main things that I'm good at, that I want people to learn from.
How can I give it away for free? Building opportunities for people to know how they can do this too? Because I believe in it and I know a lot of people like to keep their information. I'd like to give it away for free to everybody who wants to know, because I think that's my expertise and I'm clear on my mission, which is to help people communicate better.
So I try to live what I believe. And then I think about being creative, about how I'm using the insights and data like, oh, that's a well-performing video turned into a carousel. Or if I think something's really cool behind the scenes or a trending song, like making sure you're using it in a way that is authentic to you, so it doesn't look like you're in the forest or whatever.
And I test it all the time. I don't have all the answers. Like, you know, I met with somebody at LinkedIn and he's like, I want to see more videos. And I'm like, he's a senior executive in the company. And like, and I'm posting videos and they're doing really well. And there's like a feed coming in from LinkedIn.
And thought leadership matters. And I feel like, you know, everyone has the opportunity. The internet is for free right now. It may not be free in five years.
Scott
It's so it's a it's I feel like we have independently come to the exact same conclusion, which is just get the content out there and experiment and see what works. And I love it. You said about LinkedIn, to like all the content I want to engage with on LinkedIn is video content. It's insightful, it's value-added, it's genuine.
It doesn't need to be the perfect most polished thing. And I think just the world is a little bit tired of this like super generic posts and, and so I, I think if you have things that are valuable, you can, you know, tell them in a compelling way. And, it's just so much more engaging. How I'm curious about you when you go to create content, some people are like, I'm going to create a mile long content calendar, and I have all these core themes and I, I dole it out.
Are you kind of like, are you a planner? Are you like a week out planner? Or use like, I'm going to sit down with my phone and just let it rip. And whatever kind of inspired me that morning when I woke up and I was having breakfast.
Maha
Yeah, we use it. We use an app called a Plantable and I, we basically do like a week, like I will sit down and do a lot of writing on Monday or Sundays, and we basically plan content ideas. There's some signature things that I kind of always do all the time, like a selfie. And I put a quote on it, but I want to talk about the book.
So we plan like I did. Definitely don't do a month out. But like I do, I think through the week and then we adjust like we're like, oh, let's do something about this Meghan Markle thing. There's like, it's happening now in the market. Let's adjust that. Or if something is trending and we want to do that, then I'll do that.
But I do sit down and plan once a week and it just doesn't take a lot of time because the biggest thing, the reason why people because I asked this question on my social media last week, I'm like, why are you building your personal brand? And a lot of the questions, the answers came back on like, I don't have a team right?
On how to content or to start or I don't know what to talk about. So I'm like, well, so I try to make sure that I make that simple for other people to like, if you know, what are you passionate about? What are you talking about all the time with your friends and family? That's what you need to talk about.
Like if it's cooking and that's your thing, or if it's your line of business and you love it, you want to talk about that. Like that's what I do. And so I just try to make it manageable and snackable because if I have this overwhelming and daunting process, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to be consistent at it.
And so I sit down and I plan a week and then if we make adjustments like already this weekend, there's things I was going to post, like I'm not doing that. I'm changing my mind, I want to post this or an interview came out or somebody invited me to collaborate. I forgot it was telling me like, you make adjustments live, but like try to be thoughtful and intentional about it so that you can give value to your audience.
Don't wait. Don't wing it because it's a process and it becomes a burden, and then you don't want to do it and then you don't enjoy it. And if you don't have joy, it comes off that there's no joy. So that's kind of how I do it.
Scott
I'm glad I'm not the only one who changes the content calendar for like two days. Notice consistently. Yes.
Maha
Yeah, I like to plan out, think through it, think through it. Monday through Sunday.
Kwame
Yeah, yeah. So I mean that you're a wealth of knowledge and obviously I'm sure that people in your life would say that you were this person for them. But when you think about your career and your journey, do you have anybody that you have met that you thought really had made the most impact that you can give a few people, you know, if you want to, but you know, if you can really name some people who have a major impact.
Maha
I mean, my first boss at General Mills, Barb General, had a big impact on me because her style of how she managed and led me was very intimidating for me, but actually taught me the most. Like she made me read The Economist and she thought that that was like, you know, if you're a good reader, you'll be a good writer.
And that was very true. And she was right. And it had language in there that taught me things. And I never want to read that magazine again. But, I was just good. I, you know, my father was a big inspiration in my life. I talk about him a lot in my book. My sister, an executive at General Mills for 35 years.
Like, she's a good people manager and a leader. And how do you have a career at the same company for 35 years, like, she does a lot right to do that, you know? So I like to learn a lot from her. I admire her. So I and then there's people on the internet that are my mentors that don't even know that they're my mentors.
I follow their work, or I like listening to things that they talk about. And so, it can come from anywhere. But the thing is, to listen to it, right, is to listen to the advice or the tough love when you don't really want to take it. I put together a personal board of directors is one of the ideas I talk about in my book.
Who are 2 or 3 people in your life that can be on your personal board of directors? That people who love you and care about you will give you tough love, will give advice, will be there to be a resource to support you. Think about putting one together. I encourage all of my clients and my friends to do it, and they love it.
Like they have an accountability partner and they meet with them for coffee once a quarter and talk about their careers or their goals or fitness goals or any personal development goals that they have. And it really helps having a circle with you when you are trying to achieve something.
Scott
I love that concept of the personal board of directors. It's so funny. I joke all the time. My wife is also very direct, like I am. And it's funny because I'll just go get feedback like Alex off or that's terrible. Or like I listen to the podcast you guys could do better. Like here's my 17 years of feedback.
Yeah. And I'm like, it's great.
Maha
And like what is that post that's cringe?
Scott
It's so funny because I think for me it is like, Rachel, can you stop with the feedback for a moment? I need to digest the list.
Kwame
And, you know, it's funny, when I was looking for our next guest site, Texas Guy, and I was like, hey, can you ask Rachel? So, yeah, you know, like, it's your boss.
Maha
Was your wife?
Scott
Yeah. By the way, we talk about networking and I'll just shout out Colombia for this and, and just kind of investing in people in relationships. So a little bit of context. My daughter's eight years old. She does like very competitive gymnastics. Spends a ton of time on it. We go around all over the place and do events all over the northwest of us.
So we had we're in the Portland area and she had a competition that was up in Seattle or homicide. But it was 45 minutes from his place. I gave him like half a day's notice. Just saying, hey, I'm in Seattle. You know, like, maybe we should grab lunch or something. And he's like, well, when. When's Grace competition?
I'd love to come out and see her. He spent 3.5 hours at a gymnastics competition 45 minutes away from his house on a Saturday. And Grace was so thrilled. And Rachel and I kind of looked at each other and was like, that was huge of me. That was like a huge investment in time in our relationship to show up and had to make it like, whatever.
But I think those are the types of people in your life who would. Yeah, who would go out of their way to make you feel special, you know, spend the whole time talking with you and and trying to understand and like, okay, how is Grace's score like that? It looks like a good one. And getting into it and you know also for him like he gets recognized places and we're in a small place with a lot of people who are like clearly recognizing me.
And I'm like, he didn't have to put himself in that position. But yeah, it was one of those moments where I think it was a clear investment in friendship and a relationship, and it meant a lot, and I don't I we didn't he and I haven't had this conversation, but it was those are some of the things where when you show up in a unique and special way for people, they will not forget that for a very long time.
And so whether it's a work relationship or a personal relationship, you know, I it doesn't need to be contrived, but I think sometimes when you get an invite, when you when someone asks you for help, maybe think like, what is their perspective, what's their context, and what would it mean to them if I can take that time out to help them to to show up?
And, you know, also, I think Kwame got something out of that experience and like, he feels more connected to, like, myself and my family and, and it strengthened our relationship. So I just think it's really interesting, you know, those types of moments and how we interact and how.
Maha
Yeah, how you show up for people is everything. Like, you know, giving people your time is your most precious asset that just matters. And it shows people your character and what you care about. And the value of spending time with someone is really, really, really important.
Scott
The biggest thing, and that was me looking at myself and saying what? I have done the same thing. And that was an internal, internal dialog. Not for me, not for me. But just like if one of my friends was like, hey, can you come watch my kids gymnastics things for three hours on the Saturday, 45 minutes from your house?
It would be a stretch. It would be a lot easier.
Maha
Like priorities.
Kwame
You know what? Well, Scott, thanks for saying that, man, I appreciate it. And I did enjoy that day. It was really fun. And I did learn a lot about gymnastics in case I ever have a daughter who ever gets into gymnastics. So now.
Maha
You're ready.
Kwame
Right? But, you know, with that being said, you said that you're. You know how you said that you've had a few people who've had an impact on you, and you said that your father had some impact on you. And I know, you know, we talked a little bit about, you know, things that matter to you, right?
Like, things that you're passionate about, you know, social issues or, just like major things that matter to you. So, you know, I'd love to dive into that a little bit. You sent over a few ideas. And so, yeah, let's, let's dive into some social issues.
Maha
So I, so I'm on the board of the Animal Humane Society. So my whole life I've been like a dog lover. Sadly, three weeks ago, my dog passed away and I'd had her coco for like 16 years. And I've always had dogs and am just compassionate towards animals and so on. I had seen the menu of mainstays, like me posting about Coco and talking about her and my personal brand there.
Like, we see that you love animals and I'm like, yeah, I'm a sucker for, you know, they can't advocate for themselves and they bring us so much joy. And there's a lot of health benefits to petting a dog and being around animals, and we're their whole world. And so I got involved with them and, and and when you think about it like when the fires happened in LA, there were a lot of dogs and cats that got lost.
And there they are, part of our family. So how so? I kind of like social issues, really working on them, helping advocate for rescuing dogs, rescuing animals, advocating for them. And then I, by my father, had ALS, he had Gehrig's disease and my mother had Ms. Multiple sclerosis. I mean two neurological diseases that couldn't be more harsh on a human being or their body.
And I didn't have one parent. I had both parents with these severe neurological diseases. So I think about the impact I am going to have on the people that suffer from some of these diseases because we're going to unlock the medical, you know, mysteries of why do people get these diseases, how do we solve them, how do we find better treatments for people?
So just kind of lending a lot of my time to figuring out how I can support people who suffer from these diseases that take away their, their, their lives and in ways that are very devastating? ALS, like your brain, is intact, but like your body becomes a coffin. You can't move, you know, you know. Remember when the ice bucket challenge came out, that was like a big thing for the ALS Foundation and that that actually raised so much money.
And the repercussions I experienced 20 years ago or 15 years ago are still helping people today. So I find that we can be more than ourselves and spend time on more than ourselves and being part of your community and being part of society in ways that can contribute positively, like thinking about your schedule in a week or in a month.
How much time is that? Are you giving it to someone outside of you and yourself and your family and your company, and try to find a way to contribute 15 minutes, 30 minutes? Or is that helping somebody, even for me? Like if I can help do storytelling for the Animal Humane Society, that's how I can use my skills to help them advocate for raising money for what they need for animal shelters or whatever.
So I feel like everybody can do their small part in a way, to contribute to an issue that either they care about or that they've been impacted by, or have suffered from, or have a friend or loved one who suffered from something. It just brings a little bit more purpose and meaning to your life and gives you that feeling of contributing in a way that's intentional.
Scott
I love that. It's so powerful. I love that you give back. It's funny, this whole conversation, I feel like I got a little personal coaching session. I feel inspired to go out and do some self-reflection. Go, go do something for society. Tell us, like, call someone and tell them. Tell them I care about it or something.
But, yeah, it's. Oh, it's so yeah. So many, so many insights and I, I just there's so many, so many ways to give back, to give value. And I think if I were to pick one core theme for this whole conversation, it was just, you know, turning, turning of focus outward a little bit. And how, how can you better yourself to also better society, better others, better those who are in your charge at work or in your life, to improve society and and make the world a better place for yourself and for all of those other individuals.
Maha
So be a value creator.
Scott
100%.
Kwame
Yeah. I mean net positive value add. That's that's, you know, that's going to be a t- shirt.
Scott
We're going to get t-shirts.
Kwame
We are going to get t-shirts. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure. You know, having you on the show. You've been absolutely great. You delivered a lot of nuggets. You know, I'm gonna I'm going to let you have this, you know, last 30s in a minute or whatever and just share your last thoughts with us about anything that you want to share with the world before you.
So we, we, you know, in this conversation.
Maha
I actually will send it out to end, to end it with this, the final chapter of the book is it talks about living with no regrets, and a lot of times it's easy to say that, but it's very hard to do. And if you have something that happened in your life, don't let that define you.
Because I had two parents that were severely handicapped and passed away. I spent most of my life being a caretaker, but I didn't want that to define me. I wanted to turn my struggle into strength. And how did I take that experience of taking care of two very sick parents? For most of my adult life, until I was 37, 38, into becoming this communications executive and have a career and find myself and what do I care about?
And I put this in the book and it's the last message I'll leave everyone with is like, if not you, who? And if not now, when? Because a lot of people think, well, how come they can do that and how can they do that? And so like I always used to say, if not me, who can do that?
I can do it. I'm capable of doing it. And if not now, when? Because I don't want to be a waiter. Life is too short. There's so many opportunities. We've never lived in a better time to be alive. Go out and grab those opportunities and take advantage of them. If this is one thing you can do, try to make a difference for yourself this year.
Scott
Awesome. That's amazing. I'm pumped. I'm ready to go and, and do some good in the world and and go be going at that value add. But, in all sincerity, thank you so much for this amazing conversation. One of the best we've had, I, I feel fired up. I think our audience will love the message and go out and do some nut positivity on their own.
So thanks again for coming by.
Maha
I appreciate you.
Kwame
All right. Until next time. We'll see you later. Bye bye.